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March 24, 2008, 09:04:32 PM
swghayward79
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National Team: Wales
Club: Glamorgan
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is he really working with simon jones? 

The FA Cup is coming back to Wales!
 

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March 24, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
manee
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National Team: India
Club: Mumbai Indians
Batting Order: Lower order
Bowling Action: Left arm medium fast
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Let me help you out there as Ian is hopefully fixing Simon Jones...

I know that you have a paid service for action help, but I have three quite general questions:

- How important is momentum in the run up. I move at quite a slow pace since I don't have the stamina nor the acceleration to run in fast off a short or long run. I will work on it with interval sprints, but how much pace will a sprint bring from a leisurely jog or would it be best to keep a controlled run up to keep the body moving in the right position, as RP Singh does.  :Dspeed into the wicket causes momentum, the more momentum behind the ball, the more pace.

- Is hang time important? I can cover fine (albeit slightly short) distances in the jump, but only with more of a skip like jump - It is merely a large step with a slight jerk after my back foot lands, shown best here. PS: I know the follow through is poor here, it is likely because I don't have a ball.   :)Again, it's momentum, if you leap in the air, your speed will reduce through lack of contact with the ground.

- Bracing the front leg. Is it worth the effort to try it and put pressure on my already weak knees. (If it will add something like 5mph + bounce, then it is clearly worth it to me)   :)The front leg is the support, but if you can imagine creating a boomerang shape from front foot contact to bowling hand release, you will cause an catapult style release, creating more pace.

All these hints are contained in Ian's book and a picture paints a thousand words.

I've read Ian's book. My questions are slightly more in depth than the material in his book.

 

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March 27, 2008, 02:13:58 PM
Ponty
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Manee...with regard to hang time, this really only happens with bowler's who have to turn into a sideways position on back foot impact (Shoaib, Imran Khan, Waqar etc). More front on bowlers tend to run through the crease as they bowl and don't require much of a jump at the crease - hence hang time isn't important for them.

ECB National & Regional Skills Sets Coach
ABSAT Founder
Author, The Fast Bowler's Bible - blowing the lid off fast bowling
www.maverickscricket.com
 

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March 28, 2008, 04:24:46 PM
swinger
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I have a random question Mr Pont: regarding bowling speed:

in dennis lillees book- art of fast bowling he says the run up contributes 19% of the bowling speed in your book i think you said 10%- now whether its 19% or 10% i dont know- but id like to know if the following is true:

taking 10% as the example

if i bowl 80mph for example  with a run up should i be able to bowl 72mph from a standing position?

or for 19% 64 mph

is the basic premise correct?
 

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March 28, 2008, 04:29:02 PM
mas cambios
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Though I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence to back it I would suggest that the figure is somewhere between the two.  I know of a few people who can bowl almost the same pace regardless of run up.

Obviously, Ian will be able to give you a more in depth answer but I would certainly say that the basic premise is correct (although other factors will come into play).

If you find the forum helpful then please don't forget to spread the word!
 

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March 28, 2008, 10:30:27 PM
Ponty
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I have a random question Mr Pont: regarding bowling speed:

in dennis lillees book- art of fast bowling he says the run up contributes 19% of the bowling speed in your book i think you said 10%- now whether its 19% or 10% i dont know- but id like to know if the following is true:

taking 10% as the example

if i bowl 80mph for example  with a run up should i be able to bowl 72mph from a standing position?

or for 19% 64 mph

is the basic premise correct?

Hi Swinger....

I recall watching the late, great Malcolm Marshall warm up for Hampshire by standing in the crease at back foot impact position, then bowling from there. The 'keeper, Bobby Parks, was a full pitch length behind the wickets as was taking the ball at chest height.

All this shows is that some bowlers have the ability to generate speed with their action, and others need a run up. I am unsure if you can actually put a precise figure on it to be honest since so many factors like length of levers (legs and arms), speed throught the crease, force generated, point of fulcrum, efficiency of movement, straight lines etc etc etc ALL add up to create the velocity.

Someone far smarter than me suggested 10% - if Lillee said 19% someone equally smart told him that. The point is that run ups are important as much for speed as for balance, co-ordination and rhythm. So your premise could be correct but might also not be - dependent upon how you bowl and the style of action you have. Some bowlers tear in as if their heads are on fire yet bowl at modest speeds. Others, like Simon Jones, seem to amble up and yet deliver north of 90 mph.

 Roll Eyes

ECB National & Regional Skills Sets Coach
ABSAT Founder
Author, The Fast Bowler's Bible - blowing the lid off fast bowling
www.maverickscricket.com
 

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March 29, 2008, 02:47:30 AM
Jonesy
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G'day mate, I have two pretty short questions.

1. There's this guy in my team, he also has the same coach as me, and he runs up on a big angle, well I mean he runs in diagonally to the crease, and I just really don't think it helps him, and he isn't a naturally fast bowler anyway, but I think that his lack of pace is a result of his run up? Would you recommend any bowler to bowl with a run up like that (not that I am going to), but I think it does help him shape the ball slightly.

2. Well I've forgotten the question I originally had planned, damn, but I might as well ask you another one.

People on my team don't really shine the ball as much as I would like them to, and while I get it to swing loads in the opening overs of the game, when I come on for my second and third spells and the ball hasn't got an inch of shine on it, well I get p*ssed off for one, and I also stuggle to take wickets, I bowl well, but what really gets me wickets is my ability to swing the ball heaps far even if it has very little shine on it, but when there's no shine I can't do anything. Any advice on wicket taking deliveries for when the ball isn't swinging?

Thanks mate.

Ai, I just remembered my question.

Our home ground (well god let's hope it's not next season) is really bad for bowling, the run ups are almost fully sand, and you get trapped in it as you run in. While I have done pretty well through it, I must admit it is very annoying. Our coach says just run full pelt through it which seams to work well for me, I've seen many bowlers struggle, one bowler going for 38 off 2 overs ore something. Do you have any advice?

Thanks once again.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 02:53:48 AM by Jonesy »
 

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March 29, 2008, 09:17:31 AM
Ponty
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G'day mate, I have two pretty short questions.

1. There's this guy in my team, he also has the same coach as me, and he runs up on a big angle, well I mean he runs in diagonally to the crease, and I just really don't think it helps him, and he isn't a naturally fast bowler anyway, but I think that his lack of pace is a result of his run up? Would you recommend any bowler to bowl with a run up like that (not that I am going to), but I think it does help him shape the ball slightly.

2. Well I've forgotten the question I originally had planned, damn, but I might as well ask you another one.

People on my team don't really shine the ball as much as I would like them to, and while I get it to swing loads in the opening overs of the game, when I come on for my second and third spells and the ball hasn't got an inch of shine on it, well I get p*ssed off for one, and I also stuggle to take wickets, I bowl well, but what really gets me wickets is my ability to swing the ball heaps far even if it has very little shine on it, but when there's no shine I can't do anything. Any advice on wicket taking deliveries for when the ball isn't swinging?

Thanks mate.

Ai, I just remembered my question.

Our home ground (well god let's hope it's not next season) is really bad for bowling, the run ups are almost fully sand, and you get trapped in it as you run in. While I have done pretty well through it, I must admit it is very annoying. Our coach says just run full pelt through it which seams to work well for me, I've seen many bowlers struggle, one bowler going for 38 off 2 overs ore something. Do you have any advice?

Thanks once again.

1. If you run in at a big angle it will cause all sorts of issues with line up of your feet, hips, shoulders and just about everything else at the crease as you deliver the ball. The most important part of bowling is at release of the ball. This should be as straight as possible to the target (to maximise speed and accuracy). The shape on the ball is caused by wrist position and not angle of feet or anything else (unless you are Malinga and slinging it very low). 99% of coaches make the mistake, and therefore the bowlers, of thinking that running at an angle helps to 'shape' the ball. All that happens is the top of the body will have to 'fall away' to stop bowling it down the leg side.

2. You only get one cricket ball (usually) in a club game so it's a schoolboy error not to look after it. ALL players in the team have the responsibility to shine a ball - so ask those who don't and who are batsmen which ball they would least like to face - a hard, swinging ball, or one that's knackered and doing nothing? They will understand then why it's important to shine a ball, and it only takes 30 seconds to get it somewhere decent enough to swing. In Oz you need to look after the Kookaburra ball which can lose it's shine quite fast too.

3. If you have an outfield that's draining and hard to run in on, think about shortening your run up for home matches? Why pound in and sap all your energy when a run is merely to get you to the crease to bowl? It's between the white lines of the crease that counts, not how far or fast you run in. I would practice a shorter, more effective run in and control the power through the crease. You may find this better...

ECB National & Regional Skills Sets Coach
ABSAT Founder
Author, The Fast Bowler's Bible - blowing the lid off fast bowling
www.maverickscricket.com
 

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March 29, 2008, 10:02:20 AM
Jonesy
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Yeh but the thing is, the bowler who got hit for 0/38 bowled off a shorter run than usual...


I think we have a few better shiners this year, so all good.
 

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March 29, 2008, 10:05:18 AM
Ponty
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Yeh but the thing is, the bowler who got hit for 0/38 bowled off a shorter run than usual...


I think we have a few better shiners this year, so all good.

You have to practice a shorter run in nets and probably on the middle too to make it realistic, not just try it in the middle of a game.

Also, poor control is not usually the fault of a shortened run up. As mentioned, bowlers can do walking drills or standing drills and still bowl a line and length.

ECB National & Regional Skills Sets Coach
ABSAT Founder
Author, The Fast Bowler's Bible - blowing the lid off fast bowling
www.maverickscricket.com
 

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March 29, 2008, 10:42:23 AM
manee
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May I suggest that without the forward momentum of a long run up, he may fall away in his action which causes the inaccuracy.

 

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March 29, 2008, 11:02:12 AM
Jonesy
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Yeh I think it was off putting because he had to go so slow in the sand, and had 2 steps to get his proper speed going....
 

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March 29, 2008, 05:00:31 PM
house
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I would be interested to know how Ian came to his conclusions about fast bowling. Is it purely scientific theory; theory cross referenced with pictures and videos of past greats or as a direct result of an independent study.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this post
 

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March 29, 2008, 09:23:43 PM
Ponty
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I would be interested to know how Ian came to his conclusions about fast bowling. Is it purely scientific theory; theory cross referenced with pictures and videos of past greats or as a direct result of an independent study.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this post
] let's see if i can answer this for you. I met the world's leading innovative bio mechanics expert, dr ken west, in 1995. He started to question why we taught fast bowling movements the way we do when there's a better way of doing it. We worked side by side for 6 weeks where it confirmed everything i learned in america while having pro baseball trials in 1987. But it was HOW to adapt the movements specifically to fast bowling that gave us ABSAT coaching. The secret is about what changes to make and how to make them. So this is where the skill drills become important. I am still adding new drills every month based on what's working best. I try to get the best results as fast as possible. The ECB has yet to take all this on but that's fine. They are still basing their coaching on the old coaching manual. I wouldn't expect any GOVERNING BODY to admit there might be something better as it would undermine the past few decades and their coach education. Which is why i run my own coach education. Governing bodies tend to be a few years behind so it's not a suprise. I would always urge people to keep an open mind and  I'm always happy to be proven wrong. But ABSAT seems to be robust and an exciting new coaching system.

ECB National & Regional Skills Sets Coach
ABSAT Founder
Author, The Fast Bowler's Bible - blowing the lid off fast bowling
www.maverickscricket.com
 

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March 29, 2008, 10:50:40 PM
manee
County Cricketer


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Bowling Action: Left arm medium fast
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Thanks for the reply.

 

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